Matt Nightingale

-Hey everyone! Welcome to this episodes “Show Notes”. We hope the links and perhaps further perspective found here can add to the conversation!

-This conversation is one that I hold as sacred. When we listen to the story that Matt shares of going from one worldview in which he believed there was something wrong with him, to becoming who God made him to be. It’s beautiful, and it is a sacred story that Matt has invited us into.

-We talk a little hockey. Blair and I are Canadian prairie boys. Go Avs, Go Habs. Playoff hockey Baby!

-We mention a little bit about what’s happening in Saskatchewan currently with mental health care, but more specifically with mental health care for our Indigenous neighbours who are in northern communities.
-Here is what our current government shot down:
-Here is the Facebook group started by Tristan:
-This is an important issue that we want to spend more time and effort on, so stay tuned to our social media pages as we try to learn more and find ways to actively seek change.

-Here is the TEDTalk that we talk about quite a bit in this episode. It’s a must watch!

-The episode we referred to with Matthew and our mutual friend Robert Monson can be heard here:

-What does Shipwreck Over Safety mean? You tell us! It started meaning one thing to us, but we also feel like it’s morphed into something far greater, harder, and different than we may have expected. We’ve tried to model our own experiences with the podcast after what we ask from our listeners. Listen, learn, doubt, grow, change the world. Blair and I question ourselves and our assumptions all the time, and much of that is thanks to you, your support, your pushback, and our brilliant guests who continue to teach us!

-Anyone else grow up with Focus on the Family? James Dobson was a favourite around our house 🤦‍♂️

-“I just did, what you do!” Matthew married because he was taught that it was what a young godly man was supposed to do.

-What I didn’t realize about Mixed Orientation marriages, is that they are quite common. It’s prevalent because we as the church have pushed our Queer siblings with shame and bad theology until they try to hide their true selves to pursue a relationship they otherwise most likely wouldn’t choose.

-“I felt like I was hiding this evil sick thing about myself”. Heartbreaking to hear another story of someone feeling so much shame about who they are.

-What is conversion therapy?
-Conversion therapy in Canada:

-3 step process (over 15 years):
1. Accept that the feelings and attractions won’t change.
2. Use the term “Gay” to identify himself.
3. It’s ok… he was created to be this way!

-“even in conservative churches there’s usually a little pocket of progressivism” I’ve seen this to be true as well. Unfortunately for Matt, coming out meant resigning from his job in an evangelical church as a worship pastor.

-Thankfully Matthew had a good support system to love him through his coming out. Not all folks who come out as any part of the LGBTQ2S+ have that support unfortunately. Imagine if we celebrated diversity rather than shame and try to convince folks not to fully integrate their identity.

-I’m so grateful that Matthew shared so openly about even the pain and hurt caused in their marriage and the divorce that followed. It clearly wasn’t an easy decision or process, but being open about it helps us all see the beauty and the pain. What a gift… a sacred gift to hear him share his story with such integrity.

-Matthew chokes on his whiskey. Maybe we should’ve edited it out, but I just love that we hear phones, kids, dogs, whiskey choking, etc. These are all incredible humans sharing their story with us!

-One of the things I am most convinced of in my journey into more affirming theology and actions, is that I’m now seeing a side of the image of God that I couldn’t see before I met incredible folks from the LGBTQ2S+ community like Matthew.

-“Imagine being authentically you, without the straightness”… bet you can’t. I don’t know how it would work, so how do we continue to push that expectation on our Queer siblings?

-Matt’s church called “The Quest” can be found here:

-Matt mentions something here about being authentic as a gay man allows others to be authentic with who they are. I think this is extremely important. I truly believe that knowing Queer folks and hearing their stories shows how much they have integrated who they are with how they live. They’ve had to hide and lie to be allowed to survive in much of our world, but when they open up, they are seen for who they are and have always been. I find this so inspiring, and want to be more honest and truthful like my friends, including Matt!

-“I am who I am” in every sphere. I love this, and I hate that I used to contribute to so many Queer folks having to pretend or hide their identity. I’m sorry folks, from the bottom of my heart!

-The Journey Center can be found here: a Center for contemplative spirituality

-Here is the organization “The Christian Closet”. Matthew works with this organization, helping others who have walked, or are walking a very similar journey to him:

-LuLu’s Lodge can be found here:

-Steve Wiens and his work can be found here:

-Really appreciate the work that Matt does. If you have learned as we have from this convo, please consider following any of the above links to support the work that Matt does bringing hope and healing to so many people!

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